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The united Left
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will never be defeated.
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1970-1973
THE UNIDAD POPULAR YEARS
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The candidate, Salvador Allende!
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With the poet, Pablo Neruda!
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Neruda, Neruda, the people salute you!
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The Unidad Popular years
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were like a waking dream.
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A whole country, a whole society
in a state of love.
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There was an intensity to life...
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that lives on now.
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It's that eternal instant
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of the moment when hope
is not for tomorrow,
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but for today, now.
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It was a great moment for us,
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the most important moment
experienced by my generation
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because we thought
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we would make this country happier,
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that illiteracy would be wiped out,
that the land would go to the peasants,
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that the workers
would have a better life...
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We did all we could
to change the country
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in what we saw
as a highly positive way.
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We worked with the peasants
and students.
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Those were unforgettable times for me.
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I learnt everything I know
during that time.
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It was a wonderful experience.
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The country was advancing
and, of course, anyone aged 18, 19 or 20
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advanced with it.
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It was a country in love
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with Allende
and with what was happening.
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Fantastic, fair, beautiful...
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- And you?
- I was there, among the people.
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I recall I was shooting a film
called The First Year
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that related all the events,
month by month, over a year,
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Allende's first year.
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It was amazing,
one long celebration.
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In the countryside, cities and homes,
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there was a joy
I had never seen in Chile.
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It was Che Guevara's idea
of a new man
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with the possibility
of emerging from underdevelopment,
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of resolving the injustices here
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that were simply terrifying.
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Terrible infant mortality...
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I worked at that time in schools,
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initially in primary schools.
I had just begun.
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Some children were too ashamed to come
as they had no shoes.
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Things no one can really imagine
these days.
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The other aspiration
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was to provide education
for all children.
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Education in Chile was free,
unlike now.
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It was free under Allende,
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at universities,
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middle schools, primary schools.
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It was a race
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to figure out
what was happening, how, etc.
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You wanted everything
but you also began to realize
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that, politically,
things take time, right?
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It led to a split.
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There were two views.
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One said
we had to "avanzar sin transar",
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strike while the iron was hot,
while the others were saying
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we had to go slowly
so as not to alarm the bourgeoisie.
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The bourgeoisie must be treated well.
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That is a very old view,
as old as the hills politically,
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for one side of the Left.
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We Socialists,
the majority of the Socialist Party,
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were for this policy
of "avanzar sin transar",
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without compromise.
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You have already partly felled the tree.
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Do you straighten it or chop it down?
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We felt we had to chop it down.
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Humanist, democratic Socialism
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was Allende's goal.
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It would distinguish
the Unidad Popular government
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from the other forms of Socialism
at that time,
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with their hierarchical regimes,
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highly authoritarian
and dictatorial.
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For the first time ever,
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a Socialist,
with his Marxist ideology,
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attained power
through a democratic vote.
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Before, it had been done by force.
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It struck the world
and terrified the Americans.
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Declassified CIA archives,
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the Church Report
to the US Senate,
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provide clear proof
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of the US efforts
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to prevent Salvador Allende's election
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by financing
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key newspapers like El Mercurio
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and other elements of the Chilean Right
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to prevent Salvador Allende
from being elected.
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Once he was elected,
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the Americans' very own documents prove
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that American funding was fundamental
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in the ensuing conspiracy
and sedition in Chile.
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In the declassified documents,
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Kissinger says,
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"Chile is a small Latin American land,
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even if it's a major copper producer,
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but the main problem
with Allende's experiment
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is the fact that this experiment,
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this example, can serve
in France and Italy
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where there are strong Communist parties
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that could propose
this political program
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with left-wing sectors
of the Christian Democrats
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or other forces in France."
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The conservatives
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could not admit there was a Socialist
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who immediately began by freezing prices
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and gave half a liter of milk a day
to every Chilean child.
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All these social measures
that no one had thought of before.
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Nationalizing copper...
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He nationalized it
without compensating the Americans
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because he said
they earned so much from our copper
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they deserved no compensation.
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That, of course, outraged the Americans
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and their government too.
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And so all this created
a situation of social conflict,
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social, not political,
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as the country
found itself split in two.
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There was no bread, sugar, oil,
electricity, etc.
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No gasoline.
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The Right had begun
to block everything.
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As they owned the factories,
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they did not distribute
what the people needed.
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The government imposed a freeze
on food prices.
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Meat could only cost so much,
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bread and cigarettes too.
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Basic items for the population.
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With prices frozen,
the sellers turned to the black market.
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You couldn't find anything.
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Consumer goods
were out of reach to everyone...
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SUGAR
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...except on the black market
for twenty times more.
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They controlled every media
and we had none.
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The right-wing press
launched an aggressive campaign
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to give an image of misgovernment,
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00:11:05,457 --> 00:11:10,962
an image of the inability to govern,
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a continual denigration
displayed in all newspapers,
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00:11:16,218 --> 00:11:21,431
with huge headlines on every newsstand.
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00:11:21,598 --> 00:11:25,852
It was a message to the people
continually repeating,
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"This government isn't working
and will bankrupt the country."
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Those of us with the government
had no way to retort.
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We had no media on our side.
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I tell you, comrades,
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comrades of so many years,
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I tell you with calm,
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with absolute tranquility,
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I am no apostle,
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nor am I a messiah,
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I have no vocation to be a martyr.
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I am a social fighter
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with a task to complete,
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entrusted to me by the people.
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But let it be understood
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by those who would turn back History
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and betray the will of Chile's majority:
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even without the vocation of a martyr,
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I will not take a step back.
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Let them understand,
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I will leave La Moneda
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once I complete the mandate
the people gave me!
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I have no other alternative.
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Only by riddling me with bullets
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can they curb my determination
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to implement
the people's program!
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Trying to change the country
in those conditions,
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with so many enemies,
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the financial sector, the military,
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the Americans,
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television and everything,
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was tough.
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We knew that in the end
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they would intervene by force.
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I learned at that time that democracy
is a good thing
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as long as it serves the mighty.
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I must say,
even though I was very young,
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I had a slight tendency
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to minimize things.
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Three times already in Italy,
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I had been through coup alerts.
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Once, in a Turin pastry shop,
we ate no end of sweets
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because this secret group
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had convened in a pastry shop.
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And so I tended to say, "Fine,
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they say we have coups at home,
but nothing happens."
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Today, after so long,
how do you view your years of activism?
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00:14:06,513 --> 00:14:07,973
What a question...
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00:14:09,641 --> 00:14:13,645
I've never asked myself that,
and that's fine.
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00:14:15,605 --> 00:14:18,400
How do I view my years of activism?
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Beautiful.
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If there's something
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good about this life, it's being able
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not only to earn it decently,
which is a lot, a huge thing,
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but also to do it for so many others.
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Mistakenly or not.
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SEPTEMBER 11, 1973
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I was at home that day
with the Chilean family hosting me.
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00:15:17,459 --> 00:15:22,797
I got up early as usual to call
my paper, Lotta Continua, in Rome,
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00:15:22,964 --> 00:15:26,927
taking into account the time difference.
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00:15:27,093 --> 00:15:30,055
I had some great meetings lined up.
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So many meetings,
I felt like a great journalist.
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00:15:34,559 --> 00:15:37,729
One was at the presidential palace,
La Moneda,
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00:15:37,979 --> 00:15:42,734
where they would give me
an accredited journalist's card.
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00:15:43,944 --> 00:15:46,237
However, from early morning,
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00:15:46,363 --> 00:15:51,576
strange announcements
began to be heard on the radio.
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00:15:51,743 --> 00:15:54,829
Communication with Valparaíso
was cut.
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00:15:54,996 --> 00:15:59,501
The President arrived unusually early
at La Moneda.
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00:15:59,709 --> 00:16:02,754
Special communiqués
were expected.
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00:16:03,004 --> 00:16:06,758
And the coup actually began
on the radio.
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00:16:07,217 --> 00:16:10,136
Declaration
of the Government Junta of Chile.
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00:16:10,345 --> 00:16:14,724
Santiago, September 11, 1973.
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00:16:15,266 --> 00:16:19,521
The Chilean armed forces and police
declare
216
00:16:20,021 --> 00:16:22,399
that the President of the Republic
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00:16:23,024 --> 00:16:26,653
must forthwith transfer his mandate
218
00:16:26,778 --> 00:16:30,156
to the Chilean armed forces and police.
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00:16:34,744 --> 00:16:36,287
This declaration
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00:16:37,122 --> 00:16:40,417
demands the President's resignation.
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I refuse.
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00:16:42,419 --> 00:16:44,504
I inform the nation
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00:16:44,671 --> 00:16:48,049
of the unthinkable behavior of soldiers
224
00:16:48,299 --> 00:16:51,428
who flout their oath and their duty.
225
00:16:51,928 --> 00:16:54,931
I hereby state my determination
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00:16:55,557 --> 00:16:58,143
to continue to defend Chile.
227
00:16:58,309 --> 00:17:00,770
We heard Allende's first message.
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00:17:00,937 --> 00:17:02,147
We were surprised.
229
00:17:02,313 --> 00:17:05,275
We told ourselves,
"It's serious.
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00:17:05,692 --> 00:17:08,820
The coup d'état will really happen."
231
00:17:09,279 --> 00:17:10,780
At our office,
232
00:17:10,947 --> 00:17:14,951
we heard Allende's other two messages.
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00:17:15,577 --> 00:17:19,164
At first, we had a feeling...
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00:17:21,666 --> 00:17:22,959
of astonishment.
235
00:17:23,710 --> 00:17:25,086
And then of fear.
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00:17:25,336 --> 00:17:27,297
Both, little by little.
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00:17:30,216 --> 00:17:31,342
What to do?
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00:17:31,468 --> 00:17:35,847
There were five of us there,
in the office,
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00:17:36,431 --> 00:17:38,349
and we couldn't decide.
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00:17:38,558 --> 00:17:42,353
And so I told the cameraman,
Jorge Miller,
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00:17:42,562 --> 00:17:44,481
"Let's go to La Moneda
242
00:17:44,689 --> 00:17:47,484
to see if we can film things."
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00:17:48,109 --> 00:17:53,323
We went 200 meters or so
and there was shooting from all sides.
244
00:17:53,823 --> 00:17:56,367
The windows in the houses opened
245
00:17:56,618 --> 00:17:58,328
and people applauded
246
00:17:58,870 --> 00:18:00,080
the gunfire.
247
00:18:00,246 --> 00:18:02,749
Then the planes flew over
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00:18:02,957 --> 00:18:06,628
and, each time,
it was like a goal had been scored.
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00:18:06,836 --> 00:18:08,338
It was awful.
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00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:11,508
The Palace of La Moneda
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00:18:11,716 --> 00:18:13,593
must be evacuated
252
00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:15,386
before 11 AM.
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00:18:17,013 --> 00:18:18,473
If not,
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00:18:18,515 --> 00:18:22,769
it will be attacked
by the Chilean Air Force.
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00:18:23,103 --> 00:18:26,356
How old were you in September '73?
256
00:18:26,523 --> 00:18:27,732
I was seven.
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00:18:28,024 --> 00:18:30,026
Do you remember that day?
258
00:18:30,235 --> 00:18:33,029
Yes, I remember it perfectly.
259
00:18:34,531 --> 00:18:37,534
Both my mother and my father
260
00:18:38,034 --> 00:18:43,248
were teachers in state schools.
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00:18:44,916 --> 00:18:46,876
They had just separated.
262
00:18:47,043 --> 00:18:50,755
They had to separate
right before the coup!
263
00:18:50,922 --> 00:18:53,675
So, along with my two brothers,
264
00:18:54,509 --> 00:18:58,805
I was living with my mother
in a house in Conchalí.
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00:19:00,306 --> 00:19:03,768
The planes started flying over
really low
266
00:19:04,144 --> 00:19:09,315
and my brothers and I
climbed onto a low wall
267
00:19:09,524 --> 00:19:11,568
to wave to them...
268
00:19:11,818 --> 00:19:16,781
My mother grabbed hold of us
and shut us inside the house.
269
00:19:16,948 --> 00:19:18,950
She took all her books...
270
00:19:19,159 --> 00:19:20,577
It still upsets me.
271
00:19:21,077 --> 00:19:24,539
She took her books,
put them on the patio,
272
00:19:24,706 --> 00:19:28,084
poured gasoline over them
and burned them.
273
00:19:30,086 --> 00:19:33,047
A mass of people, walking,
274
00:19:33,715 --> 00:19:34,841
sad,
275
00:19:36,342 --> 00:19:37,844
all in silence,
276
00:19:38,052 --> 00:19:40,471
a mass of people walking
277
00:19:40,597 --> 00:19:42,307
from the city center
278
00:19:42,849 --> 00:19:45,727
towards the south.
279
00:19:47,353 --> 00:19:48,980
They didn't run.
280
00:19:49,105 --> 00:19:50,857
But that silence...
281
00:19:52,108 --> 00:19:54,110
Then the planes came...
282
00:19:54,235 --> 00:19:58,072
I saw the planes bomb La Moneda.
283
00:19:58,740 --> 00:20:00,950
That was something
284
00:20:01,868 --> 00:20:03,828
I'd never imagined.
285
00:20:03,995 --> 00:20:06,456
What citizen could imagine
286
00:20:06,623 --> 00:20:11,711
their own air force bombing
the seat of government?
287
00:20:39,906 --> 00:20:41,866
Workers of my country,
288
00:20:42,283 --> 00:20:46,287
at this ultimate moment,
289
00:20:47,121 --> 00:20:49,916
the last time I can address you,
290
00:20:50,541 --> 00:20:54,128
I have faith in Chile and its destiny.
291
00:20:54,671 --> 00:20:57,924
Other men will overcome
292
00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:01,261
this dark and bitter moment
293
00:21:01,427 --> 00:21:04,555
when treason seeks to prevail.
294
00:21:04,806 --> 00:21:07,183
Go forward knowing that,
295
00:21:08,142 --> 00:21:10,436
sooner rather than later,
296
00:21:10,770 --> 00:21:14,190
the great avenues will open again
297
00:21:14,565 --> 00:21:16,943
where free men will walk
298
00:21:17,151 --> 00:21:19,696
to build a better society.
299
00:21:20,196 --> 00:21:22,949
Long live Chile!
Long live the people!
300
00:21:23,199 --> 00:21:24,909
Long live the workers!
301
00:21:25,076 --> 00:21:27,328
These are my final words
302
00:21:27,662 --> 00:21:29,414
and I am certain
303
00:21:29,580 --> 00:21:33,042
that my sacrifice will not be in vain.
304
00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:36,296
Allende's speech
305
00:21:37,714 --> 00:21:42,218
was a powerful farewell.
306
00:21:46,055 --> 00:21:49,434
We experienced it politically.
307
00:21:50,727 --> 00:21:53,313
We knew from listening to him
308
00:21:53,479 --> 00:21:56,983
there would be no resistance,
be it military
309
00:21:58,860 --> 00:22:01,362
or political.
310
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:08,369
We didn't know then
that Allende would die
311
00:22:08,745 --> 00:22:10,705
but listening to him,
312
00:22:11,372 --> 00:22:14,083
knowing him,
313
00:22:16,002 --> 00:22:20,882
we knew that a period
was coming to a close.
314
00:22:21,215 --> 00:22:22,759
He preferred,
315
00:22:22,884 --> 00:22:25,970
above all, to avoid civil war.
316
00:22:26,137 --> 00:22:29,265
We didn't understand it at the time.
317
00:22:29,474 --> 00:22:33,019
With our revolutionary passion,
we'd have fought.
318
00:22:33,227 --> 00:22:36,647
But he stepped aside to end the debate.
319
00:22:36,773 --> 00:22:41,527
Without a president,
there are no loyalists and so on.
320
00:22:41,652 --> 00:22:42,779
Only the future.
321
00:22:43,154 --> 00:22:44,989
The army took me prisoner
322
00:22:45,156 --> 00:22:49,160
and so I returned to Chile Film
as a prisoner.
323
00:22:49,369 --> 00:22:51,120
I had only just left.
324
00:22:51,287 --> 00:22:55,917
Then, over a tiny radio
belonging to the caretaker,
325
00:22:56,042 --> 00:23:00,671
we all learnt in dismay,
326
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:03,925
the soldiers, the sergeants,
327
00:23:04,133 --> 00:23:06,052
the prisoners like me,
328
00:23:06,302 --> 00:23:07,678
the caretaker,
329
00:23:07,804 --> 00:23:09,764
everyone who was there,
330
00:23:09,931 --> 00:23:11,182
Allende was dead.
331
00:23:11,391 --> 00:23:13,434
I remember one thing.
332
00:23:13,643 --> 00:23:17,063
The commander of the unit
holding me prisoner
333
00:23:17,188 --> 00:23:19,690
took off his helmet and said,
334
00:23:19,899 --> 00:23:22,944
"Shit, what are we doing?"
335
00:23:26,447 --> 00:23:29,784
They are now putting the body
336
00:23:29,951 --> 00:23:32,703
of ex-President Salvador Allende
337
00:23:32,829 --> 00:23:35,456
in an army ambulance.
338
00:23:35,665 --> 00:23:37,708
We are outside La Moneda.
339
00:23:38,584 --> 00:23:43,714
We saw him and can confirm
that his face was blown away.
340
00:23:44,590 --> 00:23:48,094
I tend to believe the hypothesis
341
00:23:48,219 --> 00:23:52,598
that was also put forward
by his people, the GAP,
342
00:23:53,558 --> 00:23:55,476
that he killed himself.
343
00:23:56,227 --> 00:23:57,979
He had no choice.
344
00:23:58,104 --> 00:24:01,858
They were coming in,
they bombed the palace...
345
00:24:02,066 --> 00:24:06,487
I have always stated
the President was murdered.
346
00:24:06,696 --> 00:24:09,449
I have stated it publicly, always.
347
00:24:09,615 --> 00:24:14,078
I have stated it in a film,
Allende in His Maze,
348
00:24:14,245 --> 00:24:17,707
and in another,
Allende, the Time of History,
349
00:24:17,874 --> 00:24:21,586
in which I say,
"No, he was murdered."
350
00:24:21,752 --> 00:24:26,090
I think history will show
in 20, 40 or 50 years
351
00:24:26,257 --> 00:24:28,384
that it was a murder
352
00:24:28,593 --> 00:24:30,761
because the evidence is there.
353
00:24:30,970 --> 00:24:34,474
You first think
he wouldn't choose suicide.
354
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,393
He'd die in combat, etc.
355
00:24:38,728 --> 00:24:41,355
Then again, suicide was normal.
356
00:24:41,522 --> 00:24:44,233
They bombed the palace,
killed...
357
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:46,903
He wouldn't go to prison.
358
00:24:47,111 --> 00:24:50,490
He said on radio,
"I won't leave the palace alive."
359
00:24:50,990 --> 00:24:53,618
The armed forces and the police
360
00:24:54,410 --> 00:24:55,995
have acted today
361
00:24:56,871 --> 00:25:00,291
solely with the patriotic goal
362
00:25:00,541 --> 00:25:02,543
of taking the country
363
00:25:02,752 --> 00:25:05,296
out of the extreme chaos
364
00:25:05,922 --> 00:25:09,675
created by the Marxist government
365
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:11,552
of Salvador Allende.
366
00:25:12,136 --> 00:25:13,888
The junta
367
00:25:14,055 --> 00:25:17,934
will maintain judiciary power
368
00:25:18,434 --> 00:25:22,188
and supervision
of the National Audit Office.
369
00:25:22,939 --> 00:25:24,565
The houses
370
00:25:25,441 --> 00:25:29,070
will be in recess until further notice.
371
00:25:29,570 --> 00:25:32,448
The situation marked a rupture
372
00:25:32,573 --> 00:25:35,326
with a whole democratic life
373
00:25:35,535 --> 00:25:38,579
that suddenly turned
into a dictatorship.
374
00:25:38,788 --> 00:25:40,540
That was impressive.
375
00:25:40,831 --> 00:25:44,168
We had no experience
of the military
376
00:25:44,335 --> 00:25:48,214
or of dictatorial or harsh regimes.
377
00:25:48,548 --> 00:25:51,926
This country that was so free
378
00:25:52,093 --> 00:25:56,055
was suddenly transformed
into a hellish land.
379
00:25:56,722 --> 00:25:58,683
Only soldiers on the street.
380
00:25:58,849 --> 00:26:03,813
All night, there were helicopters
with bright spotlights
381
00:26:03,980 --> 00:26:06,732
flying over Santiago's streets...
382
00:26:07,316 --> 00:26:08,985
to see who was out.
383
00:26:09,110 --> 00:26:14,699
From a certain hour at night
until a certain hour in the morning,
384
00:26:14,865 --> 00:26:18,995
no cars were allowed out,
only military vehicles.
385
00:26:19,579 --> 00:26:23,874
That, of course,
created a climate of fear.
386
00:26:24,709 --> 00:26:26,252
Everyone knew
387
00:26:26,502 --> 00:26:28,004
which vehicles
388
00:26:28,129 --> 00:26:31,340
were used by the DINA,
the secret police.
389
00:26:31,591 --> 00:26:33,384
People were afraid.
390
00:26:33,509 --> 00:26:37,722
If ever your doorbell rang at night
391
00:26:38,264 --> 00:26:41,392
that was a sign of the worst.
392
00:26:41,517 --> 00:26:43,769
You were afraid to go out.
393
00:26:43,978 --> 00:26:48,649
If you went out to shop,
you'd go straight home.
394
00:26:48,858 --> 00:26:52,778
You didn't walk around.
You stayed shut in.
395
00:26:52,987 --> 00:26:55,615
That was the new life, shut in.
396
00:26:56,032 --> 00:27:02,038
When they came for me
five days later, they took me
397
00:27:02,413 --> 00:27:06,167
to the police station
and then the National Stadium.
398
00:27:21,265 --> 00:27:23,184
In actual fact,
399
00:27:23,643 --> 00:27:26,646
there are two camps with detainees.
400
00:27:27,021 --> 00:27:29,023
The National Stadium one
401
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,026
is particularly full,
402
00:27:33,444 --> 00:27:37,657
with a number
of just over 7,000 people.
403
00:27:41,035 --> 00:27:42,912
To meet the commander,
404
00:27:43,079 --> 00:27:44,830
I mistakenly entered,
405
00:27:45,039 --> 00:27:48,709
instead of his building,
the stadium itself.
406
00:27:48,959 --> 00:27:52,922
I entered the stairs
and saw, along a wall,
407
00:27:53,089 --> 00:27:56,550
a hundred people, hands like this,
facing the wall,
408
00:27:56,717 --> 00:27:59,470
all in silence, with two soldiers.
409
00:27:59,845 --> 00:28:02,848
I realized I was in the wrong place.
410
00:28:03,182 --> 00:28:06,227
I went to the right building
and said,
411
00:28:06,352 --> 00:28:11,232
"The Foreign Ministry has allowed me
to see the commander."
412
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,610
Then a young lieutenant
413
00:28:14,819 --> 00:28:17,863
pulled out a P38 and said,
414
00:28:18,989 --> 00:28:22,451
"A man feels fulfilled with this."
415
00:28:22,743 --> 00:28:26,747
It was like being in some B-movie
with Nazis.
416
00:28:26,956 --> 00:28:29,625
Then two other soldiers shouted,
417
00:28:29,750 --> 00:28:31,877
"One hanged himself last night."
418
00:28:32,086 --> 00:28:34,588
"Great, less work for us."
419
00:28:34,839 --> 00:28:35,881
That bad.
420
00:28:36,257 --> 00:28:40,886
What did you know
about what was happening at the stadium?
421
00:28:41,095 --> 00:28:42,638
Torture, killings...
422
00:28:42,847 --> 00:28:44,640
While we were there,
423
00:28:45,766 --> 00:28:49,228
we hardly ever talked
about the killings.
424
00:28:50,730 --> 00:28:54,150
It was a way to defend ourselves
psychologically.
425
00:28:54,275 --> 00:28:56,902
The days of fear, of great fear,
426
00:28:57,027 --> 00:28:59,405
were the first three or four
427
00:28:59,613 --> 00:29:03,993
when they kept us in the locker rooms
all the time.
428
00:29:04,535 --> 00:29:08,122
We'd hear confused noises
in the hallway.
429
00:29:08,289 --> 00:29:13,043
We'd hear gunshots
but couldn't tell where from.
430
00:29:13,169 --> 00:29:17,423
One time,
they let us out in the hallway.
431
00:29:17,631 --> 00:29:21,510
A hooded man walked past us,
a spy, an informer
432
00:29:21,677 --> 00:29:25,431
who had to look at us
and pick someone.
433
00:29:25,639 --> 00:29:28,309
At first, they didn't feed us.
434
00:29:28,517 --> 00:29:32,188
On the third day,
they began to give us soup.
435
00:29:33,689 --> 00:29:37,318
At one point, a man arrived,
436
00:29:37,443 --> 00:29:39,695
made us lower our pants
437
00:29:39,904 --> 00:29:43,574
and put oil on our genitals
438
00:29:43,783 --> 00:29:46,911
to prevent the spread of lice
in the locker room.
439
00:29:47,077 --> 00:29:50,331
No one had lice,
but they thought we did.
440
00:29:50,956 --> 00:29:54,585
Some Red Cross ladies came
and threw us candy
441
00:29:54,710 --> 00:29:58,672
as if we were monkeys.
It all fell to the floor.
442
00:29:59,089 --> 00:30:01,842
At night, they turned on the light.
443
00:30:01,967 --> 00:30:03,844
Who knows why.
444
00:30:04,345 --> 00:30:07,348
A machine gun out in the corridor
445
00:30:07,598 --> 00:30:10,476
was loaded and kept ready to fire.
446
00:30:21,195 --> 00:30:22,988
Then, on the 15th day,
447
00:30:23,197 --> 00:30:26,492
an officer called out my name.
448
00:30:26,700 --> 00:30:28,994
I went out onto the field.
449
00:30:29,203 --> 00:30:32,706
There were
around twenty or thirty of us.
450
00:30:32,998 --> 00:30:36,752
They told us
that we were free to go.
451
00:30:37,127 --> 00:30:38,504
Before we left,
452
00:30:38,712 --> 00:30:42,132
an officer gave us a speech,
453
00:30:42,258 --> 00:30:44,593
telling us how to behave,
454
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:47,513
to obey military orders,
455
00:30:47,721 --> 00:30:49,515
to go to bed early,
456
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:53,894
to avoid all political activity, etc.
457
00:30:54,478 --> 00:30:56,230
Like we were children.
458
00:30:56,397 --> 00:30:58,524
We left the stadium...
459
00:30:59,233 --> 00:31:02,486
I remember
we were four or five friends
460
00:31:02,903 --> 00:31:06,115
and we sat down on the street,
461
00:31:06,615 --> 00:31:08,659
not knowing what to do.
462
00:31:08,909 --> 00:31:13,247
We had no money for the bus.
We didn't know what to do.
463
00:31:13,414 --> 00:31:16,542
After a while,
we realized we had to hurry
464
00:31:16,750 --> 00:31:18,544
because of the curfew.
465
00:31:19,128 --> 00:31:21,547
So we got on the bus
without paying.
466
00:31:21,755 --> 00:31:25,009
The driver knew
where we had been,
467
00:31:25,175 --> 00:31:27,303
just like his passengers.
468
00:31:27,511 --> 00:31:30,180
When we got on,
they fell silent
469
00:31:30,389 --> 00:31:32,683
and looked out of the window.
470
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:37,146
All citizens are warned
471
00:31:37,521 --> 00:31:40,149
that any act of sabotage
472
00:31:40,441 --> 00:31:44,028
in any kind of national activity,
473
00:31:44,194 --> 00:31:47,281
such as companies, factories,
474
00:31:48,032 --> 00:31:49,325
media
475
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:52,703
or transport, etc.
476
00:31:53,287 --> 00:31:57,416
will be severely punished.
477
00:31:58,167 --> 00:32:00,961
What is your opinion today
478
00:32:01,211 --> 00:32:03,839
of the September 11 coup
479
00:32:04,048 --> 00:32:09,094
against a president
democratically elected by the people?
480
00:32:09,553 --> 00:32:13,724
I think it was a good thing.
I always have.
481
00:32:13,933 --> 00:32:17,478
We, the Chilean military,
482
00:32:18,979 --> 00:32:22,858
generally kept well away from politics.
483
00:32:23,609 --> 00:32:28,322
It wasn't our role professionally.
484
00:32:28,489 --> 00:32:31,867
The military didn't go near politics.
485
00:32:31,992 --> 00:32:34,203
At least my generation
486
00:32:34,370 --> 00:32:36,497
and maybe the previous one.
487
00:32:38,123 --> 00:32:41,251
We disliked
getting involved in politics.
488
00:32:41,377 --> 00:32:44,254
But Chile was on the verge
of civil war.
489
00:32:44,713 --> 00:32:46,757
Let's try to remember
490
00:32:46,882 --> 00:32:49,259
how he came to power.
491
00:32:49,385 --> 00:32:52,638
First, a democratic election, true,
492
00:32:52,763 --> 00:32:57,601
but he won that election
with just 36% of the votes,
493
00:32:57,768 --> 00:33:01,271
meaning that more than 60%...
494
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:04,274
But that's called democracy.
495
00:33:05,234 --> 00:33:06,402
Democracy.
496
00:33:06,610 --> 00:33:09,154
Yes, all right.
497
00:33:09,279 --> 00:33:12,783
We were the true defenders of democracy.
498
00:33:12,992 --> 00:33:16,620
Democracy was reinstated
499
00:33:17,371 --> 00:33:20,916
because the military government
rebuilt it.
500
00:33:21,166 --> 00:33:24,294
His program was totally unacceptable.
501
00:33:24,420 --> 00:33:29,174
Implementing it would have led
to a totalitarian system.
502
00:33:29,675 --> 00:33:32,011
There were so many parties.
503
00:33:33,178 --> 00:33:35,305
Why a totalitarian system?
504
00:33:35,514 --> 00:33:38,934
All those parties:
Socialist, Communist,
505
00:33:39,059 --> 00:33:42,062
the MAPU,
the Christian Democrats...
506
00:33:42,271 --> 00:33:44,648
That was at a point in time!
507
00:33:44,815 --> 00:33:49,194
But where it was heading
was perfectly clear, it was...
508
00:33:49,319 --> 00:33:52,948
Maybe it wasn't
a single party government,
509
00:33:53,157 --> 00:33:54,199
maybe not,
510
00:33:54,283 --> 00:33:56,785
but there was a single ideology,
511
00:33:56,952 --> 00:33:59,329
Marxist-Leninist ideology.
512
00:33:59,955 --> 00:34:04,460
Do you justify illegal detention centers
513
00:34:04,668 --> 00:34:07,463
such as Villa Grimaldi
514
00:34:07,588 --> 00:34:09,548
and also torture?
515
00:34:09,715 --> 00:34:12,468
I do not justify torture at all.
516
00:34:12,676 --> 00:34:15,179
But it was used all the same.
517
00:34:17,222 --> 00:34:20,976
Perhaps it was used,
but I never saw it.
518
00:34:21,101 --> 00:34:22,603
No one saw a thing!
519
00:34:22,811 --> 00:34:26,690
So the press, television, public opinion
520
00:34:26,857 --> 00:34:30,360
have all set out to frame the junta?
521
00:34:30,819 --> 00:34:34,490
I am speaking of my own experience.
522
00:34:34,615 --> 00:34:39,745
I was surprised to hear of such cases
when they were tried.
523
00:34:39,870 --> 00:34:44,875
Indeed, I saw the interviews
in which they admitted to it.
524
00:34:45,084 --> 00:34:46,752
It was their doing.
525
00:34:47,002 --> 00:34:50,714
Neither the junta nor the government
ordered it.
526
00:34:51,256 --> 00:34:53,717
The military version says,
527
00:34:54,093 --> 00:34:58,388
"It was civil war.
We were forced to step in."
528
00:34:58,597 --> 00:34:59,765
No.
529
00:35:01,266 --> 00:35:03,602
That's a lie.
530
00:35:03,894 --> 00:35:08,899
It was simply a matter
of students, workers and laborers
531
00:35:09,024 --> 00:35:12,778
getting organized to defend jobs,
532
00:35:12,903 --> 00:35:15,739
along with the elected government.
533
00:35:16,115 --> 00:35:18,283
Civil war was impossible.
534
00:35:18,408 --> 00:35:22,412
The other side had nothing,
no army or anything.
535
00:35:22,788 --> 00:35:27,167
That was the military's
most stupid mistake.
536
00:35:27,292 --> 00:35:32,548
There was no need to "disappear"
thousands of people or use torture.
537
00:35:32,756 --> 00:35:34,424
They had no adversary.
538
00:35:34,633 --> 00:35:38,387
We had nothing
to march on La Moneda with.
539
00:35:39,805 --> 00:35:41,682
The people didn't...
540
00:35:41,890 --> 00:35:46,812
No doubt there were a few air guns
in factories here and there.
541
00:35:47,020 --> 00:35:48,438
I don't deny that.
542
00:35:48,647 --> 00:35:52,651
There was also shooting
in four or five factories.
543
00:35:53,277 --> 00:35:55,404
Those were heroic acts.
544
00:35:55,821 --> 00:35:58,824
We consider them as heroic acts.
545
00:35:59,074 --> 00:36:02,953
Comrades who believed
with all their hearts.
546
00:36:03,203 --> 00:36:07,207
And they believed
that they could resist too.
547
00:36:24,474 --> 00:36:28,353
Unlike many other coups,
548
00:36:28,478 --> 00:36:31,732
when they seized power,
in the aftermath,
549
00:36:31,940 --> 00:36:34,818
they were determined to exterminate
550
00:36:35,068 --> 00:36:40,240
all those who had collaborated
with Allende.
551
00:36:40,365 --> 00:36:43,493
The methods used in that decade,
552
00:36:44,745 --> 00:36:47,247
virtually eliminated
553
00:36:48,123 --> 00:36:51,960
the Revolutionary Left
and its main cadres,
554
00:36:52,461 --> 00:36:55,005
then the Socialist Party
555
00:36:55,130 --> 00:36:58,383
and the leaders
of the Communist Party
556
00:36:58,759 --> 00:37:00,844
during 1976.
557
00:37:01,011 --> 00:37:04,890
The goal was total annihilation.
558
00:37:05,098 --> 00:37:07,017
The assassination
559
00:37:08,018 --> 00:37:11,271
of the opposition's political cadres,
560
00:37:11,980 --> 00:37:13,607
defenseless people.
561
00:37:13,774 --> 00:37:15,859
It's true, defenseless.
562
00:37:16,235 --> 00:37:19,780
We held several meetings.
563
00:37:20,155 --> 00:37:23,659
We did tiny things to protect people
564
00:37:23,867 --> 00:37:26,036
and to protect each other,
565
00:37:26,370 --> 00:37:30,165
to know what happened,
who was in the stadium,
566
00:37:30,791 --> 00:37:33,377
if there were any informers.
567
00:37:33,669 --> 00:37:38,048
I have my own view on that issue too.
568
00:37:38,257 --> 00:37:41,677
I don't believe
anyone can resist torture.
569
00:37:42,052 --> 00:37:47,766
So you can't really condemn someone
who ends up giving your name.
570
00:37:47,933 --> 00:37:51,186
My name was given under torture, I know.
571
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:56,066
However, if it meant that comrade
572
00:37:56,191 --> 00:38:00,779
received half as much electricity
to his testicles,
573
00:38:02,447 --> 00:38:04,449
it is not condemnable.
574
00:38:04,574 --> 00:38:07,577
I cannot say he was wrong.
575
00:38:08,036 --> 00:38:10,789
When they came to get me,
576
00:38:10,956 --> 00:38:15,836
they already knew I could take them
where they wanted to go.
577
00:38:16,044 --> 00:38:18,714
That was the problem.
578
00:38:19,214 --> 00:38:23,802
Others could have said,
"I don't know" or "I know them."
579
00:38:25,554 --> 00:38:29,599
They wanted to get
to the MIR political committee.
580
00:38:30,475 --> 00:38:32,936
But I never talked.
Nothing happened.
581
00:38:33,353 --> 00:38:35,814
I was taken to Villa Grimaldi.
582
00:38:36,106 --> 00:38:38,108
How long were you there?
583
00:38:38,942 --> 00:38:42,863
That time, I spent 45 days
at Villa Grimaldi.
584
00:38:43,071 --> 00:38:44,614
That means
585
00:38:44,823 --> 00:38:49,369
for 45 days, you're not a prisoner,
you're just missing.
586
00:38:49,494 --> 00:38:53,457
It means your family looks for you
everywhere.
587
00:38:53,623 --> 00:38:57,252
The police haven't arrested you
so know nothing.
588
00:38:57,711 --> 00:39:00,630
If you can tell me,
how did they torture you?
589
00:39:00,839 --> 00:39:04,343
Well, torture is something...
590
00:39:05,635 --> 00:39:07,262
I can talk about it
591
00:39:07,471 --> 00:39:11,516
because we militants,
above all the women,
592
00:39:11,641 --> 00:39:14,102
talk about these things
593
00:39:14,269 --> 00:39:17,606
as a way to exorcize
fear and suffering.
594
00:39:17,773 --> 00:39:19,274
Well, then...
595
00:39:20,025 --> 00:39:21,777
in that situation,
596
00:39:21,902 --> 00:39:23,987
the first strange thing
597
00:39:24,154 --> 00:39:28,492
was that a woman undressed you, see?
598
00:39:28,658 --> 00:39:31,995
Then they took you to a room
full of men,
599
00:39:32,162 --> 00:39:33,622
three or four people,
600
00:39:33,789 --> 00:39:36,541
one who operated
and others who had fun.
601
00:39:36,750 --> 00:39:38,627
That's the tragic thing.
602
00:39:39,294 --> 00:39:41,797
There were also women shouting
603
00:39:41,922 --> 00:39:46,802
to make you lie down
on a bed base, a sort of cot...
604
00:39:48,178 --> 00:39:49,429
a bed...
605
00:39:51,181 --> 00:39:53,058
made up of steel bands.
606
00:39:53,183 --> 00:39:57,646
Very old ones that must have served
in other countries.
607
00:39:57,813 --> 00:40:00,690
They tied your arms and feet to it
608
00:40:00,941 --> 00:40:03,318
and gave you electric shocks,
609
00:40:03,527 --> 00:40:07,948
above all to the humid areas,
the vagina and breasts.
610
00:40:08,698 --> 00:40:11,159
They had questions for you.
611
00:40:11,326 --> 00:40:16,331
When you were ready to talk,
you raised your hand and said so,
612
00:40:16,581 --> 00:40:19,209
then they stopped to let you talk.
613
00:40:19,793 --> 00:40:21,837
They began to torture me.
614
00:40:22,212 --> 00:40:24,423
The thing is, in my case,
615
00:40:25,465 --> 00:40:27,217
I lost a lot of blood.
616
00:40:27,426 --> 00:40:29,553
At one point,
617
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:33,306
while waiting to be questioned
and tortured,
618
00:40:33,473 --> 00:40:36,059
one guy tore off the tape,
619
00:40:36,810 --> 00:40:40,230
removed my blindfold
and, at that point,
620
00:40:40,689 --> 00:40:45,360
I said, "For pity's sake,
stop ripping off the tape!"
621
00:40:45,986 --> 00:40:48,989
The guy looked at me and said,
"What?"
622
00:40:49,197 --> 00:40:52,325
"You're tearing out my eyelashes!"
623
00:40:52,492 --> 00:40:55,454
And my friend there with me said,
624
00:40:55,620 --> 00:40:59,082
"What do eyelashes matter
if they kill us?"
625
00:40:59,249 --> 00:41:04,504
I said, "They'll kill us,
but I want to die with my lashes!"
626
00:41:05,380 --> 00:41:10,635
I was there, blindfolded,
and someone knocked on the door.
627
00:41:10,886 --> 00:41:15,265
I saw one of the torturers,
one of those who had fun,
628
00:41:15,390 --> 00:41:17,267
one who shouted,
629
00:41:17,392 --> 00:41:20,770
"Give her more.
She knows and won't talk."
630
00:41:21,521 --> 00:41:26,860
She said, "Señora Marcia,
step outside, I have a favor to ask."
631
00:41:27,027 --> 00:41:30,280
I stepped out, she removed my blindfold
632
00:41:30,489 --> 00:41:36,286
and I discovered she was
seven or eight months pregnant...
633
00:41:36,495 --> 00:41:39,164
She was expecting
and she was knitting.
634
00:41:39,289 --> 00:41:41,416
She wanted me to help.
635
00:41:41,541 --> 00:41:42,918
"You can knit."
636
00:41:43,168 --> 00:41:47,631
She wanted me
to help knit a cardigan for her baby.
637
00:41:47,797 --> 00:41:50,425
That's why I say it was madness.
638
00:41:50,550 --> 00:41:52,802
I remember sitting with her
639
00:41:52,928 --> 00:41:55,055
and teaching her to knit,
640
00:41:55,180 --> 00:41:58,683
thinking that just after
she might kill me.
641
00:41:59,142 --> 00:42:01,144
They tortured me a lot.
642
00:42:01,311 --> 00:42:03,563
When they arrested Carmen Yáñez,
643
00:42:03,772 --> 00:42:05,565
they sat her on the floor
644
00:42:05,690 --> 00:42:09,194
and showed her
how she would end up.
645
00:42:09,402 --> 00:42:11,279
They removed her blindfold
646
00:42:11,446 --> 00:42:14,950
to show her how a person
who resisted ended up.
647
00:42:15,158 --> 00:42:16,785
That person was me.
648
00:42:16,952 --> 00:42:20,956
I sat by her and told her,
"Carmen, don't talk
649
00:42:21,081 --> 00:42:25,585
or you'll live the rest of your life
with the remorse
650
00:42:25,710 --> 00:42:30,340
that someone you denounced
was killed or disappeared.
651
00:42:30,549 --> 00:42:32,092
That really hurts.
652
00:42:32,300 --> 00:42:36,221
It's a pain
you will never manage to overcome,
653
00:42:36,429 --> 00:42:38,598
so don't open your mouth
654
00:42:38,723 --> 00:42:42,477
and relax
because we're going to a better place."
655
00:42:42,852 --> 00:42:44,229
I don't know
656
00:42:44,437 --> 00:42:46,856
whom this government
is fighting.
657
00:42:46,982 --> 00:42:48,942
The Chilean people?
658
00:42:49,359 --> 00:42:51,236
It's a strange thing,
659
00:42:51,611 --> 00:42:56,575
an army fighting
the people of its homeland
660
00:42:58,243 --> 00:43:02,497
to impose a situation by force.
661
00:43:02,706 --> 00:43:04,124
The important ones,
662
00:43:04,249 --> 00:43:08,962
those who did the best work
during the dictatorship
663
00:43:09,129 --> 00:43:12,507
were the Catholic Church's clergy.
664
00:43:12,757 --> 00:43:16,011
We had a cardinal, a wonderful person,
665
00:43:16,219 --> 00:43:18,013
who was the only one
666
00:43:18,471 --> 00:43:21,141
who could halt the military's excesses,
667
00:43:21,349 --> 00:43:25,353
who cared
about the missing or tortured.
668
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:27,897
Churches became a refuge
669
00:43:28,023 --> 00:43:32,027
for all those
who had no other possibility.
670
00:43:32,527 --> 00:43:35,488
That cardinal has been forgotten.
671
00:43:36,656 --> 00:43:41,244
John-Paul II let him go
as soon as he turned 75.
672
00:43:41,411 --> 00:43:47,292
He was the most important personality
of the Chilean resistance for me.
673
00:43:47,917 --> 00:43:49,377
At that time,
674
00:43:49,544 --> 00:43:52,631
young people wanted to be priests
675
00:43:53,298 --> 00:43:55,675
because it was so...
676
00:44:00,138 --> 00:44:01,431
How can I put it?
677
00:44:01,931 --> 00:44:04,684
The stature was so great...
678
00:44:11,650 --> 00:44:13,902
This priest's moral stature.
679
00:44:21,451 --> 00:44:23,411
Why are you so moved?
680
00:44:30,418 --> 00:44:34,589
Why are you so moved,
thinking of that cardinal?
681
00:44:35,048 --> 00:44:36,716
Because he was...
682
00:44:51,481 --> 00:44:54,109
the way a cardinal should be.
683
00:44:55,110 --> 00:44:57,487
I'm not a Catholic, I'm an atheist.
684
00:44:57,696 --> 00:45:00,490
I have nothing to do with that.
685
00:45:02,492 --> 00:45:03,743
But when...
686
00:45:05,578 --> 00:45:06,996
a person...
687
00:45:09,874 --> 00:45:11,501
deserves respect...
688
00:45:12,377 --> 00:45:14,379
you must give it to him.
689
00:45:17,090 --> 00:45:21,386
PUNTA PEUCO PRISON
690
00:45:27,726 --> 00:45:30,770
They prosecute us for torture,
691
00:45:30,895 --> 00:45:34,524
because we're criminals,
because we're offenders,
692
00:45:34,733 --> 00:45:38,403
because we're kidnappers,
because we're killers.
693
00:45:39,112 --> 00:45:40,655
That is not so.
694
00:45:40,989 --> 00:45:42,365
The army,
695
00:45:42,532 --> 00:45:45,660
the officers,
the non-commissioned officers,
696
00:45:45,785 --> 00:45:49,414
are professional people
who followed orders.
697
00:45:49,622 --> 00:45:53,793
That said, there were some cases
698
00:45:54,002 --> 00:45:56,880
handled in an irregular manner.
699
00:45:57,046 --> 00:45:59,174
Yes, there were some.
700
00:45:59,424 --> 00:46:04,804
But, at the same time,
the people on the other side
701
00:46:05,430 --> 00:46:07,307
also killed people.
702
00:46:08,308 --> 00:46:13,563
We executed some
by firing squad.
703
00:46:13,897 --> 00:46:17,817
Those were executions
decided by court martial.
704
00:46:19,027 --> 00:46:21,654
There were deaths on both sides.
705
00:46:21,821 --> 00:46:24,699
They killed a lot of our people.
706
00:46:25,033 --> 00:46:27,952
They talk about numbers...
707
00:46:28,077 --> 00:46:31,331
One death is important.
Just one.
708
00:46:32,415 --> 00:46:35,084
Millions died in the USSR.
709
00:46:35,585 --> 00:46:40,715
If we consider military governments,
Argentina had 30,000 deaths.
710
00:46:41,090 --> 00:46:43,092
Know how many in Chile?
711
00:46:43,301 --> 00:46:44,552
Less than 3,000.
712
00:46:45,094 --> 00:46:47,972
What charge were you convicted on?
713
00:46:48,181 --> 00:46:52,185
I'm accused of homicide and kidnapping.
714
00:46:52,727 --> 00:46:56,981
My line of defense
has always been perfectly clear.
715
00:46:57,607 --> 00:47:02,487
I've been saying the same thing
for twenty years now.
716
00:47:02,695 --> 00:47:05,698
I've been a prisoner here ten years
717
00:47:05,865 --> 00:47:07,492
and I still say it.
718
00:47:07,992 --> 00:47:08,993
Firstly,
719
00:47:09,202 --> 00:47:13,748
I am innocent
of all the charges against me.
720
00:47:14,374 --> 00:47:17,961
Because we have been persecuted,
721
00:47:18,378 --> 00:47:21,214
judicially and politically.
722
00:47:21,381 --> 00:47:23,132
So you feel you're a victim?
723
00:47:23,341 --> 00:47:26,511
A victim. I am a victim.
724
00:47:27,971 --> 00:47:31,474
Why was Allende so dangerous?
725
00:47:32,517 --> 00:47:34,853
For me, he wasn't dangerous.
726
00:47:35,728 --> 00:47:36,771
He wasn't.
727
00:47:36,896 --> 00:47:39,649
Even so, bombing La Moneda...
728
00:47:40,775 --> 00:47:45,655
He had violated
Chilean justice and law
729
00:47:45,780 --> 00:47:47,282
and the Constitution.
730
00:47:48,032 --> 00:47:51,786
Do you feel
you have done things in your life
731
00:47:51,995 --> 00:47:54,914
for which you must ask forgiveness?
732
00:47:55,498 --> 00:47:58,751
I, Eduardo Iturriaga,
733
00:47:58,918 --> 00:48:03,423
ask forgiveness for all the bad things
I may have done.
734
00:48:03,673 --> 00:48:07,927
I don't feel any hatred
for my opponents,
735
00:48:08,136 --> 00:48:11,431
even though those opponents hate me.
736
00:48:11,639 --> 00:48:16,936
Now, if they hear about this interview,
737
00:48:17,145 --> 00:48:20,064
they'll say,
"That criminal Iturriaga."
738
00:48:20,273 --> 00:48:21,691
I'm no criminal.
739
00:48:21,900 --> 00:48:23,818
"That torturer Iturriaga."
740
00:48:24,027 --> 00:48:25,320
I'm no torturer.
741
00:48:25,445 --> 00:48:27,697
"That kidnapper Iturriaga."
742
00:48:27,822 --> 00:48:29,032
I'm no kidnapper.
743
00:48:29,198 --> 00:48:33,661
"Neither forgive, nor forget,"
they say.
744
00:48:34,454 --> 00:48:37,332
I say,
"Yes, let's forgive each other.
745
00:48:37,540 --> 00:48:40,335
You forgive and we forgive."
746
00:48:40,710 --> 00:48:43,087
What do you ask forgiveness for?
747
00:48:44,339 --> 00:48:47,216
You are not my judge.
748
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:50,595
You are not my confessor.
749
00:48:50,720 --> 00:48:53,848
You are neither a judge, nor a priest.
750
00:48:53,973 --> 00:48:58,811
I don't give interviews,
but I accepted because Señor Núñez
751
00:48:58,978 --> 00:49:03,733
told me this one
would be, let's say, impartial.
752
00:49:03,858 --> 00:49:07,695
Because it's not enough to give me...
753
00:49:07,862 --> 00:49:10,365
to get me to read my statement,
754
00:49:10,573 --> 00:49:16,120
but if you place it within a context
that prejudices us,
755
00:49:16,329 --> 00:49:21,000
that prejudices us with bad words,
for example...
756
00:49:21,209 --> 00:49:23,378
I'm not impartial.
757
00:49:24,003 --> 00:49:25,755
I'm not impartial.
758
00:49:26,714 --> 00:49:30,760
THE ITALIAN EMBASSY
759
00:49:31,135 --> 00:49:33,638
Just then, the doorbell rang.
760
00:49:36,975 --> 00:49:38,977
"Shit, they followed me."
761
00:49:39,143 --> 00:49:43,773
Instead, it was a nun who asked,
"Are you David Muñoz?"
762
00:49:43,898 --> 00:49:45,483
"Yes," I told her.
763
00:49:46,651 --> 00:49:49,737
She was in plain clothes,
with a cross here.
764
00:49:49,904 --> 00:49:54,534
"We're going to try to get you
into the Italian Embassy.
765
00:49:54,909 --> 00:49:59,914
My colleague is waiting outside
with a car.
766
00:50:00,039 --> 00:50:03,126
You have to leave everything.
767
00:50:03,292 --> 00:50:06,170
Don't bring anything and let's try."
768
00:50:07,505 --> 00:50:09,298
Let me digress...
769
00:50:09,424 --> 00:50:13,678
Before, thanks to my cousin
who had gone south
770
00:50:13,803 --> 00:50:16,389
with his bosses' permission,
771
00:50:16,556 --> 00:50:19,183
I knew
I was wanted dead or alive,
772
00:50:19,392 --> 00:50:23,563
along with eight others
from my province, Cautín.
773
00:50:23,813 --> 00:50:26,566
It was a difficult situation.
774
00:50:26,691 --> 00:50:29,402
And so, well...
775
00:50:29,569 --> 00:50:32,321
I followed this nun
776
00:50:33,322 --> 00:50:34,574
into their car.
777
00:50:34,699 --> 00:50:38,786
The other girl
was dressed as a nun too.
778
00:50:38,953 --> 00:50:41,664
We began a voyage
around Santiago,
779
00:50:41,831 --> 00:50:46,836
with me surrounded by baskets
of vegetables, fruit and bread,
780
00:50:47,045 --> 00:50:52,216
until we arrived in the streets
near the Italian Embassy.
781
00:50:52,467 --> 00:50:57,430
Then, the girl dressed as a nun
turned to me and said,
782
00:50:57,597 --> 00:50:58,848
"Get out now
783
00:50:59,057 --> 00:51:01,684
and act like a young couple.
784
00:51:01,851 --> 00:51:04,854
stroll calmly along the street
785
00:51:05,063 --> 00:51:08,191
and she'll help you over the wall."
786
00:51:08,733 --> 00:51:11,110
So we walked for a bit
787
00:51:11,319 --> 00:51:13,488
and then she said to me,
788
00:51:14,572 --> 00:51:17,116
"The wall seems lower here."
789
00:51:17,325 --> 00:51:19,952
She crossed her hands for my foot,
790
00:51:20,119 --> 00:51:23,372
lifted me up
and I grabbed the wall.
791
00:51:23,498 --> 00:51:27,627
As I was straddling the wall,
792
00:51:27,752 --> 00:51:29,378
she called out,
793
00:51:29,504 --> 00:51:34,342
"Bye. Say hi to the others
I've sent over the wall before.
794
00:51:34,509 --> 00:51:36,135
I'm Valeria."
795
00:51:36,385 --> 00:51:40,389
We walked along the street,
several times,
796
00:51:40,598 --> 00:51:43,267
always dressed differently.
797
00:51:43,643 --> 00:51:45,853
Two or three times a day.
798
00:51:46,145 --> 00:51:48,523
At either end of the street,
799
00:51:48,731 --> 00:51:52,985
there were armored vehicles,
police armored cars.
800
00:51:53,361 --> 00:51:58,032
Four men patrolled opposite
as they couldn't on this side.
801
00:51:58,533 --> 00:52:02,495
I'd always been bad at gymnastics
since I was little.
802
00:52:02,662 --> 00:52:06,541
I remember how a teacher told me once,
803
00:52:06,666 --> 00:52:09,669
"Gymnastics will be useful one day."
804
00:52:09,877 --> 00:52:12,046
And I remembered that.
805
00:52:13,005 --> 00:52:16,425
We went to train
in a neighborhood stadium
806
00:52:16,551 --> 00:52:18,261
with a wall like this.
807
00:52:18,761 --> 00:52:22,181
We said, "This is it."
And we went for it.
808
00:52:22,557 --> 00:52:26,686
We ran across the street
and climbed over the wall.
809
00:52:26,894 --> 00:52:31,149
Even now, I can't figure out
how I got over
810
00:52:31,399 --> 00:52:34,694
because I was left hanging
on one side,
811
00:52:35,069 --> 00:52:36,571
on a corner,
812
00:52:36,946 --> 00:52:38,656
hanging like this.
813
00:52:39,448 --> 00:52:44,036
And then I saw two people
lean over and pull me up.
814
00:52:44,704 --> 00:52:47,456
When I left the taxi
near the embassy,
815
00:52:47,582 --> 00:52:50,543
a military jeep with officers
816
00:52:50,710 --> 00:52:53,462
started coming towards me.
817
00:52:54,213 --> 00:52:59,093
Two soldiers were at the gate,
one on either side, blocking it.
818
00:52:59,302 --> 00:53:04,098
I immediately saw my brother-in-law
behind the gate
819
00:53:04,599 --> 00:53:05,808
and I ran.
820
00:53:06,350 --> 00:53:09,562
I ran a race for once in my life.
821
00:53:09,854 --> 00:53:11,606
When, above all,
822
00:53:11,731 --> 00:53:16,611
the Communist Party Central
Committee and Communist Youth
823
00:53:16,819 --> 00:53:20,114
were decimated,
after they killed them,
824
00:53:21,115 --> 00:53:23,117
the circle tightened
825
00:53:23,743 --> 00:53:29,749
and someone from the Youth Directorate
told me,
826
00:53:30,499 --> 00:53:32,585
"You have to leave....
827
00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:34,462
We can't..."
828
00:53:34,629 --> 00:53:39,508
I said,
"I don't want to leave my country."
829
00:53:39,842 --> 00:53:45,014
Then they told me
I had to get into the Italian Embassy
830
00:53:45,598 --> 00:53:46,891
in Santiago,
831
00:53:47,099 --> 00:53:49,769
the only embassy still open
832
00:53:49,977 --> 00:53:54,273
and receiving people of that kind.
833
00:53:54,398 --> 00:53:58,611
So my mother came with my daughter.
834
00:53:59,737 --> 00:54:02,865
I remember she had on a yellow dress
835
00:54:03,032 --> 00:54:05,034
that I had made for her.
836
00:54:06,911 --> 00:54:08,621
I hugged my mother
837
00:54:08,788 --> 00:54:10,164
and said, "Mom,
838
00:54:10,373 --> 00:54:14,168
you have to walk
around the embassy wall,
839
00:54:14,377 --> 00:54:17,004
holding the little one up
840
00:54:18,130 --> 00:54:20,174
because, at one point,
841
00:54:20,549 --> 00:54:22,677
someone will grab her
842
00:54:22,802 --> 00:54:24,679
and you have to...
843
00:54:24,804 --> 00:54:29,517
If you hear them say so,
throw her over the wall."
844
00:54:35,022 --> 00:54:36,148
Forgive me.
845
00:54:43,572 --> 00:54:47,326
At the corner of Elena Blanco
846
00:54:47,535 --> 00:54:51,205
and the street behind
whose name I forget,
847
00:54:51,831 --> 00:54:54,834
on that sharp corner,
848
00:54:55,459 --> 00:54:58,963
my daughter was thrown
by my mother
849
00:54:59,171 --> 00:55:01,090
and Freddy, her father,
850
00:55:01,299 --> 00:55:04,051
and other comrades caught her
851
00:55:04,218 --> 00:55:07,972
like a bundle tossed over the wall.
852
00:55:08,222 --> 00:55:12,476
When they told me
to jump over the wall,
853
00:55:12,810 --> 00:55:16,939
I, who have always been useless
at gymnastics,
854
00:55:17,106 --> 00:55:20,067
but with a strong survival instinct,
855
00:55:20,234 --> 00:55:23,446
I drew on all my powers of agility,
856
00:55:23,738 --> 00:55:28,576
peered over
and saw that there was a pool
857
00:55:28,993 --> 00:55:32,747
with people sunbathing around it.
858
00:55:32,997 --> 00:55:38,377
I thought, "Hey, I'm a political
refugee, not a burglar."
859
00:55:38,586 --> 00:55:41,380
I thought it was a private home.
860
00:55:41,505 --> 00:55:43,382
There were people...
861
00:55:43,507 --> 00:55:47,136
There was a gardener there
862
00:55:47,345 --> 00:55:51,891
and everyone joked afterwards
because I started to ask,
863
00:55:52,099 --> 00:55:55,394
"Excuse me..."
- I didn't know much Italian -
864
00:55:55,519 --> 00:55:59,774
"Excuse me, sir,
is this the Italian Embassy?"
865
00:55:59,899 --> 00:56:05,029
And the gardener, smarter than me,
signaled to me to jump.
866
00:56:05,237 --> 00:56:08,532
For, indeed, it was the embassy.
867
00:56:08,741 --> 00:56:12,036
I was very obedient and gullible.
868
00:56:12,161 --> 00:56:14,538
I believed everything.
869
00:56:14,747 --> 00:56:17,291
"Tomorrow, you enter
the Italian Embassy.
870
00:56:17,416 --> 00:56:20,544
There's a blind spot at the back.
871
00:56:20,795 --> 00:56:22,880
No one will see you
872
00:56:23,047 --> 00:56:25,174
and you'll be expected."
873
00:56:25,633 --> 00:56:30,179
The next day, a car picked me up
874
00:56:30,388 --> 00:56:33,182
drove me there and left me
875
00:56:33,307 --> 00:56:35,559
on Calle Clemente Fabres.
876
00:56:36,519 --> 00:56:38,187
I saw the blind spot.
877
00:56:38,396 --> 00:56:41,690
And there was a soldier there
878
00:56:41,899 --> 00:56:43,943
with his rifle.
879
00:56:44,068 --> 00:56:46,320
I went towards the soldier.
880
00:56:46,445 --> 00:56:49,156
I got to the blind spot and jumped.
881
00:56:49,323 --> 00:56:51,534
He said, "What are you doing?"
882
00:56:51,700 --> 00:56:53,035
"I'm jumping."
883
00:56:54,203 --> 00:56:59,542
"Halt!" He started to reach
for his rifle to shoot at me.
884
00:56:59,708 --> 00:57:01,085
Above me,
885
00:57:01,961 --> 00:57:04,046
over the corner, was a tree.
886
00:57:04,213 --> 00:57:06,966
An apple tree, is that right?
887
00:57:07,091 --> 00:57:09,343
And sitting up there
888
00:57:09,468 --> 00:57:13,848
was a MIR comrade called Vergara.
889
00:57:14,682 --> 00:57:16,809
He was sitting eating an apple.
890
00:57:16,976 --> 00:57:20,729
When I jumped
after throwing my bag over,
891
00:57:21,355 --> 00:57:25,192
he grabbed my arms
and we fell into the grounds
892
00:57:25,359 --> 00:57:26,944
with the soldier firing.
893
00:57:27,111 --> 00:57:29,697
It wasn't true I was expected.
894
00:57:30,739 --> 00:57:34,493
I should have been smarter.
895
00:57:34,702 --> 00:57:37,329
I couldn't do it alone.
896
00:57:37,496 --> 00:57:42,209
We fell inside
and the impact was terrific.
897
00:57:42,501 --> 00:57:44,962
I broke my leg,
898
00:57:45,129 --> 00:57:48,591
while he took a bullet in the...
899
00:57:49,467 --> 00:57:50,968
in the shoulder.
900
00:57:51,260 --> 00:57:53,095
At one point,
901
00:57:53,512 --> 00:57:58,017
there was such a race to the embassies
by these Chileans
902
00:57:58,225 --> 00:58:01,395
who were driven mad with fear
903
00:58:02,104 --> 00:58:04,899
and who would jump over the wall.
904
00:58:05,024 --> 00:58:09,153
They didn't even ask
or enter the normal way.
905
00:58:09,278 --> 00:58:11,864
The embassy wall was very low.
906
00:58:12,031 --> 00:58:15,409
They've raised it by a meter now.
907
00:58:15,618 --> 00:58:19,663
It's three meters high now,
but then it was low.
908
00:58:19,872 --> 00:58:21,123
Just two meters.
909
00:58:21,290 --> 00:58:26,629
Someone had removed bricks
here and there to make a ladder.
910
00:58:26,921 --> 00:58:30,174
People would arrive and jump in.
911
00:58:30,799 --> 00:58:36,013
And this created
a real moral dilemma for me.
912
00:58:36,180 --> 00:58:41,018
When I began to see
these uncontrolled arrivals,
913
00:58:41,185 --> 00:58:43,771
I asked myself, "What do I do?"
914
00:58:44,688 --> 00:58:50,444
I asked my ministry
for instructions on what to do.
915
00:58:50,653 --> 00:58:53,572
Of course,
they never gave me any.
916
00:58:54,823 --> 00:58:58,953
So I decided to keep them all.
917
00:58:59,203 --> 00:59:01,288
Not to send anyone away.
918
00:59:01,455 --> 00:59:05,793
With some embassies,
we worked very hard.
919
00:59:05,960 --> 00:59:06,961
The Swedes.
920
00:59:07,086 --> 00:59:08,712
The Swedes were...
921
00:59:09,838 --> 00:59:14,969
Many embassies took refugees,
but stopped much earlier.
922
00:59:15,719 --> 00:59:17,930
We continued longer.
923
00:59:18,597 --> 00:59:23,227
This reception room was a bedroom.
924
00:59:23,936 --> 00:59:27,106
Not for just one person, of course,
925
00:59:27,314 --> 00:59:28,732
but for fifty.
926
00:59:28,857 --> 00:59:31,485
There were fifty of us here...
927
00:59:32,486 --> 00:59:33,612
every night.
928
00:59:33,821 --> 00:59:38,492
There were so many of us.
It was a large place, a whole block.
929
00:59:38,617 --> 00:59:40,077
I felt good there.
930
00:59:40,244 --> 00:59:43,497
There were comrades,
many older than me,
931
00:59:43,706 --> 00:59:47,626
so it was an opportunity
to discuss and talk.
932
00:59:47,835 --> 00:59:49,253
To gain experience.
933
00:59:49,628 --> 00:59:51,755
There was a large room.
934
00:59:52,339 --> 00:59:54,216
We called it La Legua,
935
00:59:54,383 --> 00:59:56,218
after a working-class district.
936
00:59:56,385 --> 01:00:00,097
We had mattresses on the floor
that we shared.
937
01:00:00,764 --> 01:00:05,019
The comrade and I who shared
were close neighbors.
938
01:00:05,144 --> 01:00:07,479
We slept back to back.
939
01:00:07,646 --> 01:00:10,107
I was lucky to be 20.
940
01:00:10,274 --> 01:00:13,652
At that age, such things are...
941
01:00:14,528 --> 01:00:16,113
well, not amusing,
942
01:00:16,280 --> 01:00:18,907
as there were dark thoughts,
943
01:00:19,033 --> 01:00:21,035
but they don't weigh on you.
944
01:00:21,243 --> 01:00:24,371
I'd have gladly slept on the floor.
945
01:00:24,538 --> 01:00:27,750
Many people in a very small space.
946
01:00:27,916 --> 01:00:32,171
It was amusing
as there were three floors
947
01:00:32,379 --> 01:00:35,132
and also a basement.
948
01:00:35,549 --> 01:00:39,887
In the basement,
there were couples with children.
949
01:00:40,262 --> 01:00:44,183
Then, on the side facing the pool,
950
01:00:44,808 --> 01:00:47,269
there were only men...
951
01:00:49,521 --> 01:00:51,815
unmarried men.
What's the word?
952
01:00:52,816 --> 01:00:54,318
Single men.
953
01:00:54,526 --> 01:00:56,570
Only single men.
954
01:00:56,904 --> 01:00:57,946
And then,
955
01:00:58,572 --> 01:01:01,575
there were couples on the other floor
956
01:01:01,784 --> 01:01:03,911
and, on the top floor,
957
01:01:04,078 --> 01:01:06,080
the single girls.
958
01:01:06,955 --> 01:01:09,416
The comings and goings...
959
01:01:10,084 --> 01:01:12,920
People up and down all night!
960
01:01:13,337 --> 01:01:15,923
I had no place to sleep
961
01:01:16,090 --> 01:01:19,468
and I found
the ambassador's wife's bathtub.
962
01:01:19,843 --> 01:01:22,471
Imagine, sleeping in a bathtub.
963
01:01:22,680 --> 01:01:25,307
It was fantastic because...
964
01:01:25,849 --> 01:01:29,228
as well as a place to sleep,
it protected me.
965
01:01:29,353 --> 01:01:32,564
Sleeping with its sides around me...
966
01:01:33,107 --> 01:01:35,859
I felt so perfect there.
967
01:01:36,443 --> 01:01:39,196
My back never hurt or anything.
968
01:01:39,488 --> 01:01:42,700
The embassy provided a cook.
969
01:01:44,827 --> 01:01:48,872
We organized ourselves to help the cook.
970
01:01:49,081 --> 01:01:53,001
We'd take turns to wash dishes,
peel potatoes,
971
01:01:53,210 --> 01:01:54,878
the usual chores.
972
01:01:55,003 --> 01:01:59,007
We also kept the garden clean
as it's very big.
973
01:01:59,133 --> 01:02:01,510
I think you've been there.
974
01:02:01,719 --> 01:02:02,886
It's very big.
975
01:02:03,095 --> 01:02:08,517
We were trying to make our lives
as normal as possible.
976
01:02:08,642 --> 01:02:13,272
Fortunately, there were also
two psychologists there
977
01:02:13,480 --> 01:02:17,985
who gave the most stressed of us
a little extra Valium
978
01:02:18,777 --> 01:02:20,863
to calm them.
979
01:02:21,780 --> 01:02:26,660
We lived a life that had nothing
to do with life outside.
980
01:02:26,785 --> 01:02:30,038
But we were pure Stalinists.
981
01:02:30,539 --> 01:02:35,627
I remember an old Socialist gentleman
982
01:02:35,794 --> 01:02:38,922
who was expelled from his party
983
01:02:39,131 --> 01:02:43,302
within the embassy for indiscipline
984
01:02:43,510 --> 01:02:47,055
because he refused to peel potatoes.
985
01:02:47,264 --> 01:02:51,018
He had never peeled potatoes in his life
986
01:02:51,185 --> 01:02:53,437
and refused to start now.
987
01:02:53,645 --> 01:02:57,691
Everyone had to do the same work.
988
01:02:58,066 --> 01:02:59,943
Some spent months there.
989
01:03:00,068 --> 01:03:02,905
Couples,
young people with babies.
990
01:03:03,071 --> 01:03:07,034
Many people didn't get along.
There was a lot of tension.
991
01:03:07,826 --> 01:03:09,703
I sought refuge in the pool
992
01:03:09,912 --> 01:03:11,914
to learn to swim.
993
01:03:12,080 --> 01:03:13,081
Sometimes,
994
01:03:13,207 --> 01:03:16,210
I'd take a baby
to see its father
995
01:03:16,335 --> 01:03:18,420
as the parents didn't speak.
996
01:03:18,587 --> 01:03:21,965
They were both there,
but didn't speak?
997
01:03:22,174 --> 01:03:24,426
I'd take the kid to one...
998
01:03:24,676 --> 01:03:27,971
I was like a supervisor.
999
01:03:28,847 --> 01:03:33,352
I don't know, I guess
we were thirty or forty children.
1000
01:03:33,977 --> 01:03:36,814
We had a lot of freedom.
We'd run everywhere.
1001
01:03:37,314 --> 01:03:42,569
As children,
we adapted the street games
1002
01:03:42,736 --> 01:03:44,696
to our situation.
1003
01:03:45,239 --> 01:03:49,493
There was a game we played
called police and thieves.
1004
01:03:49,743 --> 01:03:51,495
We adapted the game
1005
01:03:51,620 --> 01:03:55,499
and called it
"refugee and cops".
1006
01:03:55,624 --> 01:04:00,629
We would set up an obstacle
and a goal.
1007
01:04:00,754 --> 01:04:03,632
The refugee had to run
and jump to the goal.
1008
01:04:03,715 --> 01:04:07,261
The police had to catch him
and if they did, he was dead.
1009
01:04:07,886 --> 01:04:11,223
The flow of refugees
1010
01:04:11,390 --> 01:04:14,101
gradually shifted to people
1011
01:04:14,893 --> 01:04:18,772
who were fleeing
like people flee Africa now.
1012
01:04:19,231 --> 01:04:20,357
From hunger.
1013
01:04:20,399 --> 01:04:25,737
They would come to see
if there was a way to get to Europe
1014
01:04:25,904 --> 01:04:27,614
and away from there.
1015
01:04:27,781 --> 01:04:30,742
The Foreign Ministry
1016
01:04:31,285 --> 01:04:35,914
was worried
and didn't want to grant visas
1017
01:04:37,541 --> 01:04:40,294
because it was afraid
1018
01:04:40,502 --> 01:04:44,006
of what we would now call
a "pull factor".
1019
01:04:44,506 --> 01:04:49,678
Some say we mustn't save the people
who die in the Mediterranean
1020
01:04:49,887 --> 01:04:52,431
because only more will come.
1021
01:04:52,556 --> 01:04:55,684
That's rather cynical, isn't it?
1022
01:05:02,524 --> 01:05:04,776
They called me and said,
1023
01:05:05,319 --> 01:05:08,196
"They threw a dead girl
1024
01:05:08,405 --> 01:05:10,949
over the wall into the embassy."
1025
01:05:11,658 --> 01:05:14,953
After the curfew, at 6 or 7 AM,
1026
01:05:15,162 --> 01:05:18,081
I went and I found this girl, dead.
1027
01:05:18,290 --> 01:05:20,334
What could we do?
1028
01:05:20,709 --> 01:05:24,922
They told us someone had been thrown
over the wall.
1029
01:05:25,714 --> 01:05:27,090
We went to see.
1030
01:05:27,299 --> 01:05:29,927
He approached, I didn't,
1031
01:05:30,302 --> 01:05:32,596
and he said it was Lumi.
1032
01:05:35,307 --> 01:05:36,725
And then...
1033
01:05:38,101 --> 01:05:41,188
This part was really...
1034
01:05:42,064 --> 01:05:44,316
really painful, so terrible.
1035
01:05:46,610 --> 01:05:49,237
After that, they came
1036
01:05:49,613 --> 01:05:52,115
and they took her away.
1037
01:05:52,616 --> 01:05:56,703
A week later,
CNI officers, the secret police,
1038
01:05:56,995 --> 01:05:58,872
came to question us all
1039
01:05:59,247 --> 01:06:03,502
because, according to their version,
there had been an orgy
1040
01:06:03,752 --> 01:06:06,505
during which we killed her.
1041
01:06:06,713 --> 01:06:10,384
Lumi was an exceptional,
truly remarkable woman.
1042
01:06:10,884 --> 01:06:15,263
I would say
she was one of the few women
1043
01:06:15,389 --> 01:06:18,392
who were emblematic MIR fighters.
1044
01:06:18,892 --> 01:06:20,102
She was killed
1045
01:06:20,268 --> 01:06:24,147
and thrown
into the Italian Embassy garden
1046
01:06:24,356 --> 01:06:26,858
in a macabre act
1047
01:06:28,110 --> 01:06:32,155
with the connivance and complicity
1048
01:06:32,364 --> 01:06:35,158
of the main media in Chile
1049
01:06:35,283 --> 01:06:39,287
to make it look as if her death
1050
01:06:39,496 --> 01:06:43,291
had occurred inside the embassy.
1051
01:06:43,500 --> 01:06:45,502
They were scare tactics,
1052
01:06:45,669 --> 01:06:48,922
an attempt to terrorize the refugees
1053
01:06:49,423 --> 01:06:52,384
who, if I'm not mistaken, were 250,
1054
01:06:53,176 --> 01:06:56,763
many of whom were children,
women and old people.
1055
01:06:57,806 --> 01:07:02,436
It was to say,
"Look, we're breathing down your necks.
1056
01:07:02,644 --> 01:07:05,939
The wall is low.
We can do what we want."
1057
01:07:06,398 --> 01:07:10,027
THE JOURNEY TO ITALY
1058
01:07:10,277 --> 01:07:14,072
Do you remember the trip
from the embassy to the airport?
1059
01:07:14,197 --> 01:07:16,700
Unforgettable. I certainly do.
1060
01:07:16,908 --> 01:07:19,953
On the day my safe-conduct arrived,
1061
01:07:20,078 --> 01:07:22,164
I had to pack
1062
01:07:22,581 --> 01:07:27,794
and go out through the gates.
1063
01:07:28,295 --> 01:07:30,672
There were a few people there
1064
01:07:30,839 --> 01:07:33,300
along with a bus
1065
01:07:33,717 --> 01:07:35,218
waiting for us.
1066
01:07:35,343 --> 01:07:39,306
And, in the group out there,
I saw my brother
1067
01:07:39,473 --> 01:07:43,310
who ran to pass me $100
that I put here.
1068
01:07:43,477 --> 01:07:47,606
We boarded a bus
1069
01:07:48,940 --> 01:07:51,735
and, in front of us, there was
1070
01:07:52,360 --> 01:07:54,613
a jeep with soldiers,
1071
01:07:54,738 --> 01:07:56,698
and another behind.
1072
01:07:56,865 --> 01:07:58,575
This caravan
1073
01:07:58,742 --> 01:08:02,204
passed through Santiago de Chile
1074
01:08:02,370 --> 01:08:06,708
with these 15 desperate castaways
1075
01:08:06,875 --> 01:08:09,878
and the two military trucks
1076
01:08:10,087 --> 01:08:12,464
that acted as...
1077
01:08:12,964 --> 01:08:16,843
They were afraid
someone would come to free us.
1078
01:08:17,010 --> 01:08:19,638
We couldn't even see the city.
1079
01:08:20,347 --> 01:08:21,890
Only straight ahead
1080
01:08:22,390 --> 01:08:25,644
because they put...
1081
01:08:25,769 --> 01:08:31,024
They made the embassy vehicles put up...
1082
01:08:32,776 --> 01:08:35,028
What's the damn word?
Curtains.
1083
01:08:35,237 --> 01:08:38,156
Curtains at the windows so...
1084
01:08:39,032 --> 01:08:41,368
We couldn't even see Santiago.
1085
01:08:41,743 --> 01:08:46,665
When they told us
they had given us the pass to leave,
1086
01:08:48,166 --> 01:08:50,252
I got a suit
1087
01:08:50,418 --> 01:08:51,670
and a tie,
1088
01:08:52,003 --> 01:08:56,299
to be worthy
of that very important moment.
1089
01:08:56,424 --> 01:09:01,263
I had made myself a sort of backpack,
with a fist on it,
1090
01:09:01,429 --> 01:09:03,932
and carried it with me anyway.
1091
01:09:04,141 --> 01:09:08,562
I had it on the bus
when we were going to the airport
1092
01:09:08,770 --> 01:09:10,438
and the cars saw it.
1093
01:09:10,647 --> 01:09:13,567
It was a way of hailing
1094
01:09:15,068 --> 01:09:18,196
and joining the political struggle.
1095
01:09:18,405 --> 01:09:21,074
What did you feel at that moment?
1096
01:09:23,201 --> 01:09:26,830
I was definitely very excited about it.
1097
01:09:28,832 --> 01:09:32,085
The five minutes with the family
were very intense.
1098
01:09:32,210 --> 01:09:34,337
- Where?
- Santiago Airport.
1099
01:09:34,838 --> 01:09:36,673
My mother was a Catholic.
1100
01:09:36,840 --> 01:09:40,719
She thought the Communists
were stealing her son.
1101
01:09:40,844 --> 01:09:42,596
She believed it for ages.
1102
01:09:53,190 --> 01:09:55,942
They took us
to a hotel on Via Aurelia.
1103
01:09:55,984 --> 01:09:58,445
They treated us admirably.
1104
01:09:58,612 --> 01:10:00,488
They gave us money.
1105
01:10:00,989 --> 01:10:04,868
At the hotel,
we were in Rome for the first time.
1106
01:10:04,993 --> 01:10:08,705
I had never left Chile for any reason.
1107
01:10:08,872 --> 01:10:10,707
We did a tour of Rome.
1108
01:10:10,999 --> 01:10:15,212
After a few days,
they came to offer us work
1109
01:10:15,378 --> 01:10:18,381
and I immediately signed up.
1110
01:10:19,257 --> 01:10:23,136
They said,
"Red Emilia has work for Chileans."
1111
01:10:23,345 --> 01:10:26,389
Emilia Romagna was Red Emilia then.
1112
01:10:26,723 --> 01:10:30,518
I ended up in a small town
called Soliera,
1113
01:10:30,727 --> 01:10:31,895
10,000 people,
1114
01:10:32,103 --> 01:10:36,149
where 70% voted Communist.
1115
01:10:36,274 --> 01:10:39,027
So they treated me well.
1116
01:10:39,402 --> 01:10:43,240
My first job was as a worker
on a pig farm.
1117
01:10:43,406 --> 01:10:47,410
As an agriculture student,
I asked to work in the country
1118
01:10:47,535 --> 01:10:50,163
and they took me at my word.
1119
01:10:50,997 --> 01:10:56,127
Italy at the end of '73
was a wonderful country.
1120
01:10:56,544 --> 01:11:02,550
I was lucky to find a job right away
because Red Emilia had offered one.
1121
01:11:02,759 --> 01:11:04,761
They hired me legally.
1122
01:11:04,928 --> 01:11:09,808
At first, they wanted me
to be an employee at the farm,
1123
01:11:10,183 --> 01:11:12,310
but the workers made more.
1124
01:11:12,435 --> 01:11:16,398
So I asked to be a worker
because I needed...
1125
01:11:16,773 --> 01:11:20,819
I couldn't bring my wife and daughter
to Italy for a year.
1126
01:11:20,944 --> 01:11:24,030
I needed money
and I needed a job.
1127
01:11:24,322 --> 01:11:26,950
After the farm, I worked in bars,
1128
01:11:27,075 --> 01:11:31,037
I washed dishes, I drove a truck.
So many jobs.
1129
01:11:31,413 --> 01:11:35,458
There was no undeclared work,
no dirty tricks.
1130
01:11:35,583 --> 01:11:36,835
I was a refugee
1131
01:11:36,960 --> 01:11:41,798
just like any person who comes here
without anything.
1132
01:11:41,965 --> 01:11:43,925
That was my condition.
1133
01:11:44,092 --> 01:11:46,052
I came without money.
1134
01:11:46,219 --> 01:11:47,470
I was welcomed.
1135
01:11:47,721 --> 01:11:49,806
They let me fit in.
1136
01:11:50,181 --> 01:11:55,603
I spoke to the Italian Communist Party
and I was hired in a foundry.
1137
01:11:55,812 --> 01:11:59,357
I had always been a bureaucrat
in an office...
1138
01:12:00,233 --> 01:12:04,612
I was hired in a foundry
called Mamoli
1139
01:12:04,738 --> 01:12:06,740
that made faucets,
1140
01:12:07,615 --> 01:12:12,704
in Lacchiarella,
a small town near Milan.
1141
01:12:13,246 --> 01:12:16,249
It's a very big company.
1142
01:12:18,126 --> 01:12:21,588
A man can learn anything.
I learnt to melt metal.
1143
01:12:21,880 --> 01:12:23,506
I was a worker.
1144
01:12:23,840 --> 01:12:24,883
Where?
1145
01:12:25,133 --> 01:12:26,384
In Milan.
1146
01:12:26,760 --> 01:12:28,970
I was a worker.
1147
01:12:29,262 --> 01:12:34,267
I was a driver too
for a gentleman who had broken his leg.
1148
01:12:34,392 --> 01:12:36,519
I drove his car for a while.
1149
01:12:36,895 --> 01:12:42,984
In every job, I have always been
a union rep for my Italian colleagues.
1150
01:12:43,777 --> 01:12:48,656
I was in a center training people
to work with disabled children.
1151
01:12:48,865 --> 01:12:51,159
I was their coordinator.
1152
01:12:51,409 --> 01:12:56,122
I think the most important work
I did as a teacher
1153
01:12:56,539 --> 01:12:58,666
was in Italy, not in Chile.
1154
01:12:58,792 --> 01:13:01,044
Right there in Rozzano.
1155
01:13:03,171 --> 01:13:07,675
The collaboration with my colleagues
was very important.
1156
01:13:09,177 --> 01:13:15,266
I was in charge of managing the network
1157
01:13:15,558 --> 01:13:21,022
with teachers, pedagogues
and psychologists.
1158
01:13:21,272 --> 01:13:26,945
Never once did an Italian say,
"Why her? She's a foreigner unlike us."
1159
01:13:27,070 --> 01:13:31,658
Everyone recognized
that I was capable of doing that job
1160
01:13:31,825 --> 01:13:34,953
and they supported me in my work.
1161
01:13:35,078 --> 01:13:40,708
In 1978, I began reading things
other than Communist Party texts.
1162
01:13:40,917 --> 01:13:44,921
I moved away
from the more militant ranks.
1163
01:13:45,213 --> 01:13:48,216
I realized this situation would last
1164
01:13:48,341 --> 01:13:51,219
and I read as much as I could.
1165
01:13:51,344 --> 01:13:53,221
I talked in quotations.
1166
01:13:53,930 --> 01:13:56,099
I drew support from them.
1167
01:13:57,475 --> 01:14:00,728
I got interested
in Bataille, Pasolini...
1168
01:14:02,105 --> 01:14:03,189
A revolution.
1169
01:14:03,356 --> 01:14:05,733
Yes, the world opened up to me.
1170
01:14:06,860 --> 01:14:12,991
I started to get involved
in things in Italy, in the city.
1171
01:14:13,199 --> 01:14:15,618
Renato Nicolini, the Roman Summer,
1172
01:14:15,827 --> 01:14:19,122
the theater, Beat '72, etc.
1173
01:14:20,373 --> 01:14:22,959
A wonderful new world for me.
1174
01:14:23,126 --> 01:14:24,502
They sent me...
1175
01:14:25,003 --> 01:14:28,715
I forget now...
To some town to make a speech.
1176
01:14:29,257 --> 01:14:30,884
I went there
1177
01:14:31,718 --> 01:14:35,138
and I found myself, at 20 or so,
1178
01:14:35,513 --> 01:14:39,017
in a sports hall full of people.
1179
01:14:39,142 --> 01:14:41,853
The solidarity of the Italian people...
1180
01:14:42,020 --> 01:14:47,275
I didn't speak any Italian
and they didn't speak any Spanish.
1181
01:14:47,525 --> 01:14:50,153
I'd say two things
and they would clap!
1182
01:14:50,278 --> 01:14:53,281
We participated
1183
01:14:53,490 --> 01:14:57,035
in a huge event
on Piazza Santi Apostoli
1184
01:14:57,160 --> 01:15:00,914
and I was very impressed
1185
01:15:01,122 --> 01:15:05,418
to see, in the front row,
Gian Maria Volonté, the actor.
1186
01:15:05,627 --> 01:15:09,672
In Chile, at that time,
we had good cinemas
1187
01:15:09,923 --> 01:15:12,175
and he was a popular actor.
1188
01:15:12,300 --> 01:15:16,930
Shortly before, they had shown
Sacco e Vanzetti in Chile.
1189
01:15:17,180 --> 01:15:18,765
I had seen it there.
1190
01:15:21,309 --> 01:15:24,646
I was struck to see him
in the front row, crying.
1191
01:15:26,022 --> 01:15:29,192
We're here to relate an episode
1192
01:15:30,527 --> 01:15:32,195
that History
1193
01:15:33,446 --> 01:15:35,532
doesn't want to remember.
1194
01:15:37,784 --> 01:15:40,161
It happened in Chile.
1195
01:15:41,287 --> 01:15:43,081
People would cry.
1196
01:15:43,706 --> 01:15:44,916
They cried
1197
01:15:45,083 --> 01:15:49,921
after you finished explaining
what had happened,
1198
01:15:50,088 --> 01:15:51,798
be it 100 people,
1199
01:15:51,965 --> 01:15:54,551
50 people or 1,000.
1200
01:15:54,717 --> 01:15:58,471
It was always the same thing.
1201
01:15:58,596 --> 01:16:02,433
You saw the people's warmth,
their solidarity.
1202
01:16:02,600 --> 01:16:04,978
Italian solidarity with Chile
1203
01:16:05,186 --> 01:16:10,483
was very important
at the political level
1204
01:16:10,733 --> 01:16:13,486
of the Italian state and its parties,
1205
01:16:13,611 --> 01:16:18,741
the Christian Democrats, Socialists,
Communists, Republicans...
1206
01:16:18,992 --> 01:16:20,994
Very important, fundamental.
1207
01:16:21,369 --> 01:16:25,873
On a personal level,
we received all that solidarity...
1208
01:16:26,124 --> 01:16:30,128
Sometimes, it was as if the coup
had occurred in Italy,
1209
01:16:30,336 --> 01:16:34,007
the Italians suffered so much
over events in Chile.
1210
01:16:34,382 --> 01:16:37,510
It wasn't just the political parties.
1211
01:16:37,635 --> 01:16:40,763
When I was working in Modena,
1212
01:16:40,888 --> 01:16:42,890
I'd ride my bicycle
1213
01:16:43,016 --> 01:16:44,767
and people would ask,
1214
01:16:44,892 --> 01:16:48,771
"Hi, are you Chilean?
What's going on at home?
1215
01:16:49,731 --> 01:16:51,983
Do you have any fresh news?"
1216
01:16:52,150 --> 01:16:54,277
And the main question was,
1217
01:16:54,485 --> 01:16:55,778
"What can we do?
1218
01:16:56,237 --> 01:16:59,115
What can I do as a person to save...
1219
01:16:59,157 --> 01:17:00,658
FREE CHILE
1220
01:17:00,783 --> 01:17:02,869
...those people
from Pinochet's barbarity
1221
01:17:03,036 --> 01:17:04,412
and save Chile?"
1222
01:17:04,537 --> 01:17:06,748
SOLIDARITY
WITH THE CHILEAN PEOPLE
1223
01:17:06,914 --> 01:17:09,542
One day, a 50-year-old man
1224
01:17:09,667 --> 01:17:11,919
stopped me and asked me...
1225
01:17:12,295 --> 01:17:17,675
He was a man who had seen
the last years of the Resistance.
1226
01:17:18,051 --> 01:17:22,555
He was a man who saw in us
those friends of his
1227
01:17:22,764 --> 01:17:27,935
who had fought Nazism and Fascism.
1228
01:17:28,061 --> 01:17:31,814
That was only 30 years before '73.
1229
01:17:32,023 --> 01:17:36,569
A 50-year-old
could easily have been a partisan.
1230
01:17:36,778 --> 01:17:39,155
Doing murals all over Italy,
1231
01:17:39,322 --> 01:17:44,452
I always find someone
who did something for Chile back then.
1232
01:17:44,786 --> 01:17:49,457
I always find someone
living in Naples or wherever...
1233
01:17:49,666 --> 01:17:52,835
"We did such and such for Chile."
1234
01:17:52,960 --> 01:17:57,465
And that is a great merit
of this people.
1235
01:17:59,342 --> 01:18:00,968
Italy has been able
1236
01:18:01,344 --> 01:18:04,722
to develop a movement so broad
1237
01:18:05,473 --> 01:18:08,851
that all democrats,
all anti-fascists fight
1238
01:18:08,976 --> 01:18:11,979
alongside the Chilean people.
1239
01:18:12,188 --> 01:18:14,732
Only Italy in Western Europe
1240
01:18:15,233 --> 01:18:19,362
has not recognized
and will not recognize the Junta.
1241
01:18:24,367 --> 01:18:26,744
The united people
1242
01:18:27,078 --> 01:18:29,497
will never be defeated!
1243
01:18:40,007 --> 01:18:42,260
When you arrived in Italy,
1244
01:18:42,385 --> 01:18:46,472
did you think
you would soon return to Chile?
1245
01:18:46,639 --> 01:18:47,765
All of us...
1246
01:18:48,641 --> 01:18:52,770
All of us lived for years
with our bags ready.
1247
01:18:54,147 --> 01:18:56,274
From the very first moment.
1248
01:18:56,524 --> 01:18:57,859
But it was a dream.
1249
01:18:58,025 --> 01:19:02,029
The first two years,
we rented an apartment.
1250
01:19:02,238 --> 01:19:04,657
We had our suitcases there.
1251
01:19:06,284 --> 01:19:09,746
But we didn't put anything
1252
01:19:09,912 --> 01:19:12,039
in the closets.
1253
01:19:13,166 --> 01:19:15,501
We kept them there.
1254
01:19:15,918 --> 01:19:18,880
We thought we could leave anytime.
1255
01:19:19,046 --> 01:19:21,299
You didn't settle down.
1256
01:19:22,800 --> 01:19:24,802
You didn't make a home.
1257
01:19:24,927 --> 01:19:27,138
You were passing through.
1258
01:19:28,556 --> 01:19:30,933
Things moved very slowly.
1259
01:19:31,058 --> 01:19:34,187
Maybe next week,
next month, next year.
1260
01:19:34,395 --> 01:19:36,898
The first New Year's Eve comes
1261
01:19:37,398 --> 01:19:40,568
and will this be the year to go back?
1262
01:19:41,944 --> 01:19:44,071
Then time begins to pass.
1263
01:19:59,086 --> 01:20:03,049
For years, all the Chileans in Italy
have met up.
1264
01:20:03,216 --> 01:20:05,343
We celebrate with a lunch,
1265
01:20:05,468 --> 01:20:07,929
a dance, a party, singers...
1266
01:20:08,221 --> 01:20:11,432
Are they all Chileans living in Italy?
1267
01:20:11,599 --> 01:20:14,101
Yes, Chileans with roots here now.
1268
01:20:14,227 --> 01:20:18,815
Many have married Italians,
have Italian children, etc.
1269
01:20:18,981 --> 01:20:22,985
It's hard to tell if the people
who have lived here so long
1270
01:20:23,110 --> 01:20:25,112
are Chilean or Italian.
1271
01:20:25,238 --> 01:20:27,240
We're both now.
1272
01:20:27,824 --> 01:20:31,702
We've always said we are rich
because we have
1273
01:20:33,830 --> 01:20:38,125
two national identities.
1274
01:20:38,751 --> 01:20:42,129
I am Chilean by birth,
1275
01:20:42,588 --> 01:20:47,760
with a country that treated me
like a stepfather would.
1276
01:20:48,386 --> 01:20:51,514
Chile was a wicked stepfather for me.
1277
01:20:51,764 --> 01:20:54,225
And Italy has been a mother,
1278
01:20:54,851 --> 01:20:57,103
generous and supportive.
1279
01:20:57,270 --> 01:21:00,773
I arrived, as an exile, in a country
1280
01:21:00,982 --> 01:21:05,778
that was new to me in many ways.
1281
01:21:05,987 --> 01:21:08,614
The country of the partisan war,
1282
01:21:08,781 --> 01:21:12,660
the country that had defended workers...
1283
01:21:13,494 --> 01:21:16,998
It seemed to me that I had truly...
1284
01:21:17,540 --> 01:21:23,254
arrived in a country that resembled
Allende's dream, at that time.
1285
01:21:24,922 --> 01:21:26,007
Today,
1286
01:21:26,424 --> 01:21:31,804
I travel in Italy and see that it
increasingly resembles Chile,
1287
01:21:32,930 --> 01:21:35,266
the worst aspects of Chile.
1288
01:21:35,433 --> 01:21:40,271
We are all caught up
in a society of frantic consumerism.
1289
01:21:40,438 --> 01:21:43,316
You don't give a damn about others.
1290
01:21:43,524 --> 01:21:46,193
If you can crush them, you do.
1291
01:21:46,694 --> 01:21:48,696
It's a rat race.
1292
01:21:48,905 --> 01:21:50,323
Self-interest.
1293
01:23:29,797 --> 01:23:32,174
Subtitles by Ian Burley
1294
01:23:32,550 --> 01:23:34,760
Subtitling: HIVENTY